Am I the only one...

[Steven Denney Shafer II]

That doesn't like streetlight manifesto? It's not that i don't like them, it's that I downright HATE them. I wouldn't even call them ska, their upstrokes are way too fast to even tell if they're playing on the offbeat. They just seem like epic punk with horns.

I personally can't stand it, and whenever I say that, I ussually get threatened. I'm not saying their not talented. They just sound like pure, unadulterated, shit. Sorry for the harsh language, but that's how I feel about them.

And in all reality they're just a spinoff of a band that's a spinoff of another band, maybe if they were the fist to have that sound I'd be impressed.

If this is the way ska is going the fourth wave can pass over me, cause I'll hate it worse than rap.

[Heather]

to each their own.

[Skibz McCullock]

I thought you were a fan of Streetlight. Of course, in my paranoid mind, this is just a ruse to get myself, one of Streetlight's biggest detractors, to fall under the wrath of hatred that would ensue once I unleash a scathing rant about them....

It's not that I *hate* Streetlight, per se, it's that I extremely dislike them. Of course, any fool can waltz onto the internet and scream 'that bands teh suxxorz! lOl! wtf! bbq!', but I have legitimate reasons:

-Their lyrics are trite. Sure, sometimes lyrics mean different things to different people, but I, for one, find them pretty bland and not nearly as insightful as many people would leave me to believe.

-Their song structures are very generic and derivative / All of their music is VERY repetitive. And I mean repetitive in the sense that I can listen to and enjoy an entire album by The Skatalites or Reverend Horton Heat or Wesley Willis, but would get a headache by the fifth track with Streetlight. Don't get me wrong, Streetlight has excellent musicians, it's just that they've yet to improve upon their sound. They still sound EXACTLY the same as they did when they recorded that Catch 22 album so long ago, and that's not necessarily a good thing. Of course, I know that fans of the band will be able to differentiate between every single nuance in every single song, but I think that a LOT of people, Ska fans or not, would agree here.

-This is just me talking, but technically, they aren't even a "ska" band, per se. Like the above poster said, there's no accent on the offbeat, therefore, by LITERAL DEFINITION...it is NOT 'ska'. I don't mind if they're called 'alternative rock', or, more specifically 'alternative-rock-with-clean-guitars-and-horns', but don't call it 'ska'.

-However, lots of people fail to see that Streetlight ISN'T ska, and that's horribly affecting the future of ska as a whole. I always scream about how the young bands of today are the big bands of the future, and without these strong young bands making a mark, the ska scene will undoubtedly die out in less than 20 years. Here in Orange County, the only promising young ska bands there are are ska punk bands, which wouldn't be a bad thing, it's just that they're all under the strong influence of Streetlight. Thus, they are led to believe that Streetlight IS what ska is, and are thereby compelled to play exactly like them. Nearly every single local band I've seen suffers from Streetlight's technique: way-too-fast arrangements on both guitar and horns. Too fast, in fact, that the musicians can't keep up, and what we end up with is sloppy, out-of-tune pop punk with clean horns and guitars.

There's no versatility, there's no variety in the new bands of the ska scene today. Nearly every single young band sounds the same, and that's doing two things: either disparaging potential ska fans to the point where nobody goes to the shows anymore, or deluding them into this misconception of what ska really is, and thus we're stuck with wave after wave of mediocre bands that just directly copy Streetlight or someone similar. Either way, this can only spell doom for the ska scene, and unless we actually DO something, American ska WILL die.

Of course, this could also be due to the fact that the kids just don't do their research like before: the majority of ska that kids listen to is what they see at the local shows and buy at Best Buy. Kids are getting less and less familiar with the truly great bands of the 80s and 90s, and that's majorly contributing to the lack of unique voices in the scene today. Would it kill them to just go beyond the boundaries of the major bands, even bands like Hepcat and The Slackers as well as Reel Big Fish and Less Than Jake, and actually do some RESEARCH on the genre that they supposedly love?

But I digress.

[Skibz McCullock]

My last reason could not fit:

-Poor live performance. This could just be me speaking, but I think a band's got to have a personality. I've seen Streetlight live twice (as an opener), and each time, they've been very, very bland. They barely talk to the audience and leave the stage without so much a 'goodbye' (and considering how crazy their fans went over them, that's incredibly rude. Any GOOD band should at least acknowledge and appreciate that it's THESE people who are keeping their career alive).

[Spin]

i like streetlight alot and i am not one for labeling but they are not ska
which is lame
ill dance to anything with a horned trifecta
(its a terrible weakness of mine)
so i can dig them but the only reason any of their shows are half decent is because of the shitload of energy the fans bring to it..the band not so much
but they should under no circumstances be considered ska andd not because that is important but because they will just rape the deffinition of ska into becoming some noew form of punk
i agree with Skibz (for once lol)

[Steven Denney Shafer II]

I hope you enjoyed the Pocketeers performance. The thing I love the most about my band is that pretty much every song is different. We have a song influenced by first wave, a couple "modern ska-punk" tunes, a couple 90s third wave tunes, a reggae inspired tune. A crazy punkish tune. A classic rock inspired song. And even a New Orleans Romp inspired song. I wish more bands had a variety, a lot of bands tend to stick to one sound. Which if not done properly, is death to the ears.

[Skibz McCullock]

Even with my extreme criticism of today's youth's ska scene, I do have to admit I enjoyed The Pocketeers' performance. I figured, though, that since there was a lot of skittery guitars and really fast horn lines that there was some degree of Streetlight influence. Since I only saw one set, I don't quite remember the whole 'every song is different' aspect. I remember a slower third-wave number and a funk song, but I mainly remember hearing a lot of ska-rock (although the ska cover of 'Santa Baby' was a highlight...).

Drat. I was going to go off on a tangent about what I'd like to see from today's bands and my thoughts on successful genre-hopping bands, but my vocabulary's fizzing out on me right now and I'm not sure what to write...

[Steven Denney Shafer II]

Well not every song is different. But for the most songs have different sub genres. And most of the members (all of the music writers) used to hate Streetlight as much as I do so we had no SM influence. Although now they seem to love Streetlight so our music may become fast songs about why you shouldn't commit suicide. ha

What I'd like to see in local bands is more traditional ska sounds. It's not that i don't like the modern sounds, cause i do (for the most part). But i'd love to hear something that wasn't influenced by Reel Big Fish.

[Skibz McCullock]

Yes, I would love to see (but mainly be in) at least ONE young trad ska band. Actually, I'd like to see anything that's not ska punk. Or...if it has to be ska punk, there are ways to make it appeal to both sides of the ska spectrum. For instance, Skankin' Pickle excelled at both punk songs and first wave-esque instrumentals. Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra, as well: apart from their trad instrumentals, they've done a lot of amazing ska-rock stuff, too.

I want to see a band that can effortlessly shift between the various waves, but it seems too unlikely, at least nowadays. You'd really need some good songwriters and musicians to pull it off, otherwise it'd just end up being uneven and disorganized.

I have faith, though, that maybe one day there'll be a band that will unite the two sides and revolutionize the American ska scene...one day...

[Steven Denney Shafer II]

Although they're not around any more. I think let's Go Bowling did this best. They had the incredible ability to play traditional ska along with the third wave sound.

[Skibz McCullock]

Yeah, they weren't bad. I think they're still around, just not as active anymore. I saw them opening for TSPO once...wow.

Fishbone, with their ska/funk/metal hybrid....Suburban Rhythm, with the rock/punk/ska/reggae stuff....The Pietasters and The Untouchables, with their ska/soul/mod stuff....The Slackers, with their ska/reggae/r&b/blues/country/rock n' roll stuff.....The Specials, with the album 'More Specials'......Cherry Poppin' Daddies barely count since they're more of a rock band, but any band that can seamlessly switch between funk metal, neo-swing, country western, glam rock, calypso, and ska punk deserves a mention.

However, a ska band doesn't need to be THAT out there or that diverse to be good. Just as long as they find their own unique sound without having to copy someone else.

[SkaSuperhero]

Interesting Topic. I personally like streetlight for many of the reasons you don't, but to each his own as Heather mentioned earlier. And I have only seen them live three times.. once in 2004 another on one of the ska is dead shows a couple of years ago and once last year with Less Than Jake. One was a headlining and the other two were opening spots. Their headlining set was too long and I was too tired to care, but I have enjoyed them a great deal live the last two times I've seen them.

As far as them not talking on stage goes.. I like that a lot. The Aggrolites hardly talk on stage and they're great.. I'm paying to see them play music and if they talk that's cool, if not that's fine. More music for me. they have really long songs and when you have a 1/2 hour to play music, you want to get as much music played as possible. That's one of the reasons my band links at least half of our set together; we want to play music. We'll talk your head off after the show. You see, when you have 4 and 5 minute songs like Streetlight does there's really no time to stop and talk during your set unless you only want to play 6 songs.

I remember about 4 years ago I played a show with I Voted For Kodos and as good as they were live, they talked waaaaay too much. I would have preferred that they just play, but I didn't let that stop me from seeing them again (though I guess every time I saw them I happened to be playing that show so it may not count.)

And the goodbye thing.. what do you want them to do? Light themselves on fire and dance like monkeys off the stage? Maybe they're just modest? Maybe they feel that's the way you should leave the stage after performing, there's no way to know that. Five Iron Frenzy never did encores. It's not that they didn't like their fans, it's just that they didn't like the idea of an encore. Every band is different.

Also, I have to disagree with you in saying that they're not a ska band. And you are kind of generalizing their sound. Songs like "Forty Days" off of their new CD isn't the typical light speed song, but that seems to be the exception. If you want to get technical nothing outside of a few artists actually fit into the "ska" mold.

The literal webster's dictionary defines ska as: popular music of Jamaican origin that combines elements of traditional Caribbean rhythms and jazz (Here's the lnik in case you want to read it for yourself) So if you wanted to use the literal definition of ska there really aren't many ska bands left are there? And you know, there aren't any mentions of offbeats or upstrokes there.

But really, who cares?

We could argue forever about what is and isn't ska but it wont get anywhere and either way Ska fans are far too hung up on labels. I remember years and years ago on the old OCska/SkaSummit boards people would fight about what is and as fun as the arguing was it was unproductive.

Now, as far as bands not innovating that is a problem of the genre and people who listen. When ska bands try something different they're sticking their neck out on the line. There are people who are going to scrutinize everything that they play to see if it fits into what they believe "ska" is. Streetlight tried some lightening fast upstrokes and some people label them not ska because in this case, them trying to not stick to the conventional idea of what ska is. How do expect to see any innovation in Ska if you want to keep the boundaries of the genre so tightly closed?

But if you want to hear some innovative "ska" listen to captain squeegee and the soapsuds from Arizona. They're friends of mine, so I may be biased, but they are one of the best bands I have ever seen live and they're all amazing musicians. They blend Ska, progressive rock, Jazz and they're just incredible.

There are a lot of cookie-cutter bands that want to sound just like their favorite bands and there's nothing wrong with that. Back when I was in High School I wanted to make a band that sounded just like the Hippos. I failed horribly, but the foundation of creating something new came from me wanting to emulate one of my favorite bands. Also, the proliferation of the scene depends on ska bands playing music, it doesn't matter if it sounds like (And my apologies to them in advance for using them as an example because everyone does) Reel Big Fish, so what? If the band stays together long enough they will eventually deviate from that original sounds, if not they'll probably break up and go away, but if they go someone who only liked RBF into the local scene, they did what they needed to.

Also, I'm sure most people on this site got into ska via one of the "big" ska bands. I personally got into ska because my sister was hugely into the Ska scene in 1996 and since she always drove me around I was exposed to Five Iron Frenzy, The Hippos, Reel Big Fish, Save Ferris, Jeffries Fan Club and these core bands i listened to almost exclusively for a while, but I eventually saw beyond these bands. These guys acted as gateways for me to a whole new scene that I fell in love with and have been a part of going to shows for over 10 years! These big ska bands are great for the scene, so don't diss on someone just because they don't know who Oreskaband, Puppy Pet, The Gadjits, One Cool Guy, the Kingpins or some other obscure band you want to pull out of left field are.

The best way to revitalize the scene is kick these elitist attitudes we all often hold and just be friendly and not give people shit for what they listen to.

To Each his own, right?

Anyway.. I really should be writing a paper instead of this so... peace!

P.S. I don't mean to be an ass in my post and if I came across that way I apologize. We don't agree, but that doesn't mean I don't like you. In fact it's quite the opposite. I'm excited to see people excited about Ska.
P.P.S. If you want to hear some fast upstrokes listen to Falling Sickness.

[LessProduct - Giz]

Intresting take on things here!
Good read :)

The whole Streetlight argument, is one ive said for ages (being an avid Catch22 fan!). Im a massive fan of both bands, and agree that its a long way from trad ska in a BIIIG way - however - its a different kind of Ska.

Im in the UK - and the ska bands i go to see are normally soooo different - ranging from fast paced ska-punk, to rock and trad ska - i love all aspects of this music.

Saw the Slackers not long ago - and this is the sad bit - people skanking, were violant. Fists out in air trying to hit people, i expect this at things like streetlight, NOFX lagwagon etc (and can i add, i love getting in the fist pits at NOFX), but slackers? come on, every one should dance to have a good time. Ska offeres a sense of unity and fun to any crowd listining. Skanking is turning into punch fests, and i think this is where bands like streetlight kind of ruining ska.