Reel big Fish.

[Steven Denney Shafer II]

I love them, but you know what annoys me? It really makes me more sorry for them than anything else. But it's the ska posers.

Reel Big fish has gotten this horrible disease where everyone likes them and the people who like them consider themselves ska kids even though they don't listen to anything else.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I go to shows and theres always a group of preteens "skaning" (although it looks more like running when they do it) with a T-shirt and sports coat, maybe a trilby hat, and a reel big fish shirt. And I ask them what their favorite band is and they say "Reel Big Fish, Less Than Jake and Streetlight Manifesto." I ask them if there's anything else and they'll say something like "I like a lot, too many to say."

This really angers me because they're practically making a mocery of the scene.

Anyone else notice this?

[Ginny K.]

I totally agree with this. RBF was such a big part of the bland devolution of ska. Many of their songs don't even have any traditional elements of ska in them. I think you can blame the band as much as the fans. They want to be synonymous with ska so that people have something unique to label them and so that they have the ska fans on their side, yet at the same time they want to have that mass appeal that only the steady, generic rock sound of ska-punk has.

It's really easy to be elitist when it comes to ska music (I recall a time about 8 years ago where admitting to being a fan of RBF would get you laughed out of a great many shows, and I've met a great many people who think that even liking bands like RBF is making a mockery of the genre), but I think it's far more attractive and reasonable to just like what you like and let other people do their own thing. The scene is what you make it.


Skibz McCullock said:

This is what I've been screaming at people for the last few years, but no one ever listened. Of course, I probably was one of those kids when I first started getting into "ska", but I had the common decency not to run around in checkered pants screaming stuff like "SkAnK it UP, rOo-DeeZ!!!" at the shows. However, I think I had the right to call myself a "ska kid", since I was into rather obscure ska-punk and third-wave acts since day one (Mephiskapheles, Slapstick, King Apparatus, etc.).
I do sort of blame Reel Big Fish for the deterioration of the American (particularly the southern Californian) ska scene. Being a fan mainly of traditional and 2-Tone Ska, it's gotten to the point where RBF has basically become synonymous with 'Ska' to the ears of those who aren't so familiar with the genre to the point where it becomes irritating. It also doesn't help when they release stupid shirts that say things like "I HEART SKA!", which definitely DOES make a mockery of the genre (would you wear a shirt that says "I HEART *any other genre*"?). So, yes, it does peeve me a bit when Ska is cheapened to the point where kids who only listen to RBF come to shows dressed entirely in black and white checkers, "skanking" in a circle (even to songs that aren't even remotely ska) and just doing...other...stupid things. Or something.
I also blame RBF (and a lot of ska-punk in general) for the lack of originality in the scene today. Just about every local ska band in So. Cal these days is a complete rip-off of their sound. All of these young musicians limit themselves to just the Ska they can find at Best Buy which, frankly, all sounds the same, so they never try to expand their sound or do anything different with it, which adds up to a LOT of really bland, unlistenable bands floating around the scene. I'd like to see what happens once RBF breaks up (which, honestly, they should have about four, five years ago)...I bet the entire scene will dissolve within a decade.

It's not that I don't like Reel Big Fish, by the way. 'Turn the Radio Off' is a *flawless* ska punk album and I really, really enjoyed 'Cheer Up!'. However, after hearing their last single ('Party Down'?), I chose not to buy their latest album.

[Skibz McCullock]

Ginny K. said:

I totally agree with this. RBF was such a big part of the bland devolution of ska. Many of their songs don't even have any traditional elements of ska in them. I think you can blame the band as much as the fans. They want to be synonymous with ska so that people have something unique to label them and so that they have the ska fans on their side, yet at the same time they want to have that mass appeal that only the steady, generic rock sound of ska-punk has.

This may sound like a complete contradiction to my post that you're quoting, but I place most of the blame on what the fans made of them. I don't hold RBF that much accountable, certainly not in their early years: it doesn't matter that they didn't play traditional ska (neither did 90% of the third wave)...musically, they're actually pretty good: 'Turn the Radio Off' is what I consider a flawless ska-punk album. It's just that their popularity and their spearheading of the genre ended up shaping ska from this rootsy, suit-clad alternative underground scene into a sunny, superficial, Hawaiian shirt-wearing party pop image. I don't think it was intentional on their part(?). It was both the media and the fans who attached this image to ska, the latter by forming nothing but sunny, superficial, Hawaiian shirt-wearing party pop bands for the last decade or so.

Of course, I hold RBF accountable NOW, as they have fully taken on this "kings of 'ska'" mentality and Aaron Barrett seems to be milking as much as possible out of his should-have-thrown-in-the-towel-eight-years-ago band. Alas, that's what you get when you sell your soul to the record companies.

[AlternativeBaby]

Skibz McCullock said:

Ginny K. said:

I totally agree with this. RBF was such a big part of the bland devolution of ska. Many of their songs don't even have any traditional elements of ska in them. I think you can blame the band as much as the fans. They want to be synonymous with ska so that people have something unique to label them and so that they have the ska fans on their side, yet at the same time they want to have that mass appeal that only the steady, generic rock sound of ska-punk has.

This may sound like a complete contradiction to my post that you're quoting, but I place most of the blame on what the fans made of them. I don't hold RBF that much accountable, certainly not in their early years: it doesn't matter that they didn't play traditional ska (neither did 90% of the third wave)...musically, they're actually pretty good: 'Turn the Radio Off' is what I consider a flawless ska-punk album. It's just that their popularity and their spearheading of the genre ended up shaping ska from this rootsy, suit-clad alternative underground scene into a sunny, superficial, Hawaiian shirt-wearing party pop image. I don't think it was intentional on their part(?). It was both the media and the fans who attached this image to ska, the latter by forming nothing but sunny, superficial, Hawaiian shirt-wearing party pop bands for the last decade or so.

Of course, I hold RBF accountable NOW, as they have fully taken on this "kings of 'ska'" mentality and Aaron Barrett seems to be milking as much as possible out of his should-have-thrown-in-the-towel-eight-years-ago band. Alas, that's what you get when you sell your soul to the record companies.

i would agree that it is not fair that when a lot of people think of ska today, they automaticly think of rbf and their style, which is not what most of the ska scene is. but unlike you i would not blame them for this. Here is a direct quote from Aaron Barret "we're not even ska, we're more like pop/band geek punk." so they've admitted to being pop. and they've definitely admitted to being a party band. and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with just wanting to have fun. but if thats not your thing, whatever thats cool. Its awesome that you're more into the traditional and 2 tone sound. I love it too. one of my favorite bands happens to be a local milwaukee band called the invaders who have been around for over 20 years and play nothing but 2 tone inspired music. but that doesn't change the fact that i love the rbf sound as well. They have always mixed many genres of music, just one of which happens to be ska. so some of their songs sound more ska influenced and some are completely void of it. and i like that. i like their music for what it is, "true ska" or not.
One thing though that really sets them apart for me is their decication to their fans. They are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. they always take the time to talk to their fans after the shows and really listen to them and get to know them. I have talked to them many times and i can tell you they are truely genuine people. They have even remembered me from show to show. they really seem to care and i definitely respect them for that.

one more thing. i definitely don't think they "should-have-thrown-in-the-towel-eight-years-ago ". i meant thats your opinion so i'm not gonna tell you you're wrong but i would simply have to disagree. true some of their later albums have not been up to par with turn the radio off and why do they rock so hard but as a live band, they're just as good if not better. any one who has been to a show lately knows what i mean.

well i guess i'll stop now because i'm sure i could ramble on for hours. i see your points but nothing is gonna change that fact that i love reel big fish so i guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree :)

[Skibz McCullock]

AlternativeBaby said:

i would agree that it is not fair that when a lot of people think of ska today, they automaticly think of rbf and their style, which is not what most of the ska scene is. but unlike you i would not blame them for this. Here is a direct quote from Aaron Barret "we're not even ska, we're more like pop/band geek punk." so they've admitted to being pop.

So...why do they sell shirts that say "I HEART SKA"? Why do they have songs called "Skatanic" and call themselves such in "Everything Sucks"? Why do they tour extensively with ska and ska-punk bands and play at such gigs as "Summer of Ska tour" and "International Ska Circus"? Why do they categorize themselves as 'ska' on their official MySpace page and call themselves "the original skanking pranksters", "signature ska sound", etc. on their website?

Regardless of what Aaron Barrett says, Reel Big Fish is most definitely a ska punk/third wave ska act. Ska is no longer a profitable or popular genre, so Mr. Rock Star is just trying to sidestep it and make themselves appeal to the non-ska crowds. In my opinion, it's rather arrogant, considering their fanbase. The Aquabats! deny that they ever played ska, but at least they developed a new non-ska sound...RBF sounds the same as when they did back in '97.

AlternativeBaby said:

and they've definitely admitted to being a party band. and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with just wanting to have fun. but if thats not your thing, whatever thats cool. Its awesome that you're more into the traditional and 2 tone sound. I love it too. but that doesn't change the fact that i love the rbf sound as well. They have always mixed many genres of music, just one of which happens to be ska. so some of their songs sound more ska influenced and some are completely void of it. and i like that. i like their music for what it is, "true ska" or not.

Once again, this isn't an argument over whether or not they're "traditional". Why do people assume just because I don't like Reel Big Fish, I strictly listen to first wave? My main interest in ska lies in the third wave ('85 - '96), and about 90% of those bands weren't "traditional". I also said that "Turn the Radio Off" is perhaps the best ska-punk album ever. And also, I don't have problems with bands that write superficial lyrics, it's just that RBF ended up having the most influence on today's ska scene, but for the worst: nearly every band in OC has adopted RBF's trademark ska-influenced pop-punk sound and wacky, semi-novelty vibe.

No offense, but I'd really like to know why you consider RBF a multi-genre act. I have all of their albums save for the last two, but they are, despite what Mr. Barrett says, a predominantly ska-influenced act, with very little outside influences (except pop, pop-punk, rock, etc.). I mean, compare it to, like, say, the Cherry Poppin' Daddies, who were active in the ska scene prior to '98: any of their albums will have a funk song, a swing song, a rock song, a punk song, a ska song, a country song...yet it all stayed within the 'rock-with-horns' spectrum enough to keep the ska fans happy. That's "ska diversity", but RBF has the tendency for each album to sound the same (although I'll admit each album has a different sound itself, but each song on it sounds more or less the same).

AlternativeBaby said:

One thing though that really sets them apart for me is their decication to their fans. They are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. they always take the time to talk to their fans after the shows and really listen to them and get to know them. I have talked to them many times and i can tell you they are truely genuine people. They have even remembered me from show to show. they really seem to care and i definitely respect them for that.

They are nice people; I met them at Ska Circus and had them autograph some stuff. I don't doubt that they're good people or good musicians, it's just that their lasting influence has proven more negative than positive in regards to the future of ska.

I can't speak for their *fans* of being nice, though...every time I've been to an RBF show I always encounter the rudest, most obnoxious group of people. I'm not saying that ALL RBF fans are obnoxious, but I've encountered enough to the point that I no longer wish to see RBF live.

AlternativeBaby said:

one more thing. i definitely don't think they "should-have-thrown-in-the-towel-eight-years-ago ". i meant thats your opinion so i'm not gonna tell you you're wrong but i would simply have to disagree. true some of their later albums have not been up to par with turn the radio off and why do they rock so hard but as a live band, they're just as good if not better. any one who has been to a show lately knows what i mean

Yes, that is my opinion. I have most of RBF's albums. I felt 'Why Do They Rock So Hard?' was a so-so rehash of their 'Turn the Radio Off' stuff, but they greatly matured, both musically and lyrically on 'Cheer Up!'. I wish they had further gone in the rock direction on that album, as it could have been much more successful (it did chart higher than 'WDTRSH?', right?), but they instead de-evolved and went back to making albums that were just retreads of their early work...and now, at this point, Aaron Barrett's the only original member and I've yet to find any RBF fans who were crazily enthusiastic over their last three albums. Barrett and Klopfenstein have shown that they're competent musicians (The Littlest Man Band was fantastic), but at this point it seems that they're too restrained and tethered by adhering to "Reel Big Fish's" music rather than their own...they should branch out. Maybe it's time to call it a day.

[Miss Upsetter]

ugh. why are we still talking about reel big fish? it's not worth it. there are better things to talk about.

their main purpose is to make out with 16 year old girls in their first cars in parking lots <3

[Dan Watts]

OKAY THING I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT PEOPLE PUTTING DOWN RBF SONGS, everything sucks is about when reel big fish started and their were ska bands everywhere (suburban rythum any one? ) with that sad Skatanic is a ska metal song, duh they don't think their the "kings of ska" they are just up their as one as the most popular bans out their. so what if their milking it. hell if i had a really popular ska band dam straight i milk it for all its worth! that said yes i do have a problem with ska-posers when i went to and RBF/streetlight show their was this fat gothic chick who just stood their in the pit and gave people dirty look when they bumped in to her amd left after streelight played. so yes ther are ska-posers in my mind but can we stop them from likeing the music? NO! SO ONCE MORE I WILL SAY SKA IS ALL ABOUT UNITY HAVING A GOOD TIME AND ENJOYING THE MUSIC jeez

[Skibz McCullock]

Dan Watts said:

OKAY THING I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT PEOPLE PUTTING DOWN RBF SONGS, everything sucks is about when reel big fish started and their were ska bands everywhere (suburban rythum any one? ) with that sad Skatanic is a ska metal song, duh they don't think their the "kings of ska" they are just up their as one as the most popular bans out their. so what if their milking it. hell if i had a really popular ska band dam straight i milk it for all its worth! that said yes i do have a problem with ska-posers when i went to and RBF/streetlight show their was this fat gothic chick who just stood their in the pit and gave people dirty look when they bumped in to her amd left after streelight played. so yes ther are ska-posers in my mind but can we stop them from likeing the music? NO! SO ONCE MORE I WILL SAY SKA IS ALL ABOUT UNITY HAVING A GOOD TIME AND ENJOYING THE MUSIC jeez

I like how you said ska is all about unity and having a good time right after you blatantly state your despisal of "ska posers" and single out "fat, gothic" people.

I won't further elaborate on the few things incorrect in your paragraph that your grammar didn't already void and null, but one thing I must point out is that Suburban Rhythm isn't even a ska band. They have a ska song or two, but for the most part, they're simply ska-influenced, in addition to being rock-, funk-, punk- and metal-influenced.

[Kate Humphrey]

Who cares? Honestly.

[Skibz McCullock]

Kate Humphrey said:

Who cares? Honestly.

Obviously enough people do to fill five pages worth of discussion.

[Chris]

Has nothing to do with the kids. Has everything to do with the band and churning out cover albums and re-recordings of songs they made 15 years ago to sell to adolescents with disposable income. If they weren't still making gobs of money off marketing "I Heart Ska", "I Heart RBF" and "I Hate RBF" t-shirts, plus their shows, would they still be a band? "Gateway band" yes, but doesn't mean they can't be robbing kids blind at the same time as they're "introducing" them to a genre. There needs to be a new "gateway band" that actually puts out a good product for the amount of money being sent their way.


And Aaron Barrett being a douchebag? Shocker there.

[Skibz McCullock]

Chris said:

"Gateway band" yes, but doesn't mean they can't be robbing kids blind at the same time as they're "introducing" them to a genre. There needs to be a new "gateway band" that actually puts out a good product for the amount of money being sent their way

Reel Big Fish is as much a 'gateway' to older ska as marijuana is a 'gateway' to black tar heroin. I'm sure each and every one of the adolescent Hot Topickers that attend their concerts are just eager to plunk money down on some Clancy Eccles and Deal's Gone Bad.

[Chris]

It's not? That's what those "Drug Free America" ads led me to believe. That, and smoking pot supports radical Islamic terrorism.

I personally got into ska thanks to Reel Big Fish, but doesn't mean that I don't look back and realize how much money I plunked down for garbage compared to the vast amount of other good ska, reggae or roots music out there. I don't argue that those Hop Topic kids, as you refer to them as, are going to rush out to buy the next Aggrolites album. Who knows, I might be wrong. I guess it's my own wishful thinking hoping we had a better "public face" to the genre... might promote a growth of lots more smaller bands that DON'T happen to sound like RBF.

Skibz McCullock said:

Reel Big Fish is as much a 'gateway' to older ska as marijuana is a 'gateway' to black tar heroin. I'm sure each and every one of the adolescent Hot Topickers that attend their concerts are just eager to plunk money down on some Clancy Eccles and Deal's Gone Bad.